OLBs at DE???

Ok i understand that in real life 3-4 OLB is a pass rusher mostly the same way a 4-3 DE is a pass rusher. No one is debating that. The problem is madden ratings use a formula per position. If you've ever gone in and edited a player or made your own player you would see that certain stats effect the overall of a player more per position. While speed is key for a WR who gives a shit about it for your Oline? I think that is actually a great system and works well for the most part.

Now. My problem with it is that the formula rates players base off of a 4-3 scheme. Since as we all know in a 3-4 the OLBs are in charge of the pass rush were as in a 4-3 they are used more for stopping the run and covering. And the major problem with that is that you can't make a player like Matt Roth (85) a 78ovr just because pass rushing stats don't mean as much in the OLB rating system. But if moved to a DE, compareable position for a 3-4 olb, he becomes a 93ovr. Quite a big jump. That makes him equal with John Abraham and 1 point ovr under robert mathis. Because he's he's also strong he rated he's 96 as a DT. That would make him 2nd only to Kevin Williams at DT. Does that sound right to anyone?

2nd example is the Denver. In madden 11 the denver broncos ran Josh McDaniels 3-4 scheme. In madden 12 they will be running John fox's 4-3. So in the game they have already moved their pass rusher to DE. And as i'm sure you both have noticed player stats haven't changed much since the latest roster update of madden 11. In fact more players have stayed exactly the same then changed and I've seen no player move more than 3 points ovr. Interested to see how the broncos new DEs compare to last year?

Robert Ayers, Madden 11/Madden 12, OVR 79/73, TAK 84/74, PMV 89/83, FMV 67/55, BSH 88/74

Now i understand that Robert Ayers is not a great player. And that he didn't have a great season and was do for a bump down but what has changed so much since the season ended? Has john madden be watching his skill deteriorate in his private work outs?

Elvis Dumervil Madden 11/Madden 12, OVR 93/ 91, SPD 86/84, STR 85/78, AGL 86/82, AWR 88/74, TAK 87/75, PMV 91/82, BSH 83/73, PRC 94/77,

Now i also understand that he was hurt and missed the whole season. But those were his ratings at the very last roster update of madden 11. What have they seen over the summer (no team work outs) that would convince the madden team to lower his str from 85 to 78. I guess he's not lifting any weights at all. And i guess he went from smart to stupid as fuck 94 PRC to 77? Guess he doesn't know how to play football anymore. Interesting his ovr only took a 2 point hit tho.

Altho if you move Ayers from ROLB to DE in madden 11 his ovr jumps from 79 to 87. Interesting that he's now a 73 DE. And Dumervil Jumps to a 99 ovr. And a 99 at DT. Crazy considering that there are no 99s at either position.

One more interesting stat change is Mario Williams of the texans. As they are moving from a 4-3 to a 3-4. So he's flipped the other way from DE to OLB.

Mario Williams, Madden 11/Madden 12, Pos DE/OLB, OVR 96/88, AWR 74/86, TAK 73/83, BSH 80/87, PRC 64/70, POW 75/81.

Other than that most of his stats stayed the same. 1 or 2 points here and there but thats understandable from year to year. I thought they did a good job here sticking to their guns and not changing his stats too much. But i find it interesting that he became a smarter better tackler by moving from DE to OLB. If you manually move him in madden 12 he goes from a 96 to an 81. But is Mario Williams really an 81 ovr player??

No. Which is why i have a problem with 3-4 olbs being switched to DE. Not because they don't play it. But because EA beefs up their stats to make their ovr translate to what they think it should be. It's almost like they think up an ovr they just add stats until they get there. Unfortunetly it turns average pass rushers into super pass rushers because those stats don't move up their ovr as much.

WongDizzel wrote:Now. My problem with it is that the formula rates players base off of a 4-3 scheme. Since as we all know in a 3-4 the OLBs are in charge of the pass rush were as in a 4-3 they are used more for stopping the run and covering. And the major problem with that is that you can't make a player like Matt Roth (85) a 78ovr just because pass rushing stats don't mean as much in the OLB rating system. But if moved to a DE, compareable position for a 3-4 olb, he becomes a 93ovr. Quite a big jump. That makes him equal with John Abraham and 1 point ovr under robert mathis. Because he's he's also strong he rated he's 96 as a DT. That would make him 2nd only to Kevin Williams at DT. Does that sound right to anyone?

No. Which is why i have a problem with 3-4 olbs being switched to DE. Not because they don't play it. But because EA beefs up their stats to make their ovr translate to what they think it should be. It's almost like they think up an ovr they just add stats until they get there. Unfortunetly it turns average pass rushers into super pass rushers because those stats don't move up their ovr as much.

While i generally agree with the no OLB at DE, Matt Roth would be an exception. He was signed by a 4-3 team to specifically play DE this year. He was even listed as a DE on NFL.com for the browns (I did message mario about it and showed proof that he actually plays DE). There is no reason that he should not be able to play DE (especially because he is on the jags :p ). I expect his ratings to be tweeked from 3-4 OLB to 4-3 DE, but if it isn't should I be punished with less talent at DE because madden has him at OLB when he actually plays DE and was signed to?

Like I said before, I expect a drop in pass rushing ability because he should have a position change and that should let the developers know he will be overrated. If the ratings are left the way they are then.... lucky me I guess.

Do you run a 3-4 or 4-3?

WongDizzel wrote:Do you run a 3-4 or 4-3?

It depends now, if Roth is downgraded to a DE in pass rushing skills, I have little use for him as an OLB and my hand will be played for me. Last year I was a 3-4 team. He was a hybrid LB-DE in Cleveland if im not mistaken as he played linebacker (yet listed as DE on nfl.com for last year on Browns).

Im fine with no OLB at DE rule no matter if they have played or do play it...Wong is right that OLB can make huge impacts as DE(ie Aaron Maybin) just because OLB will have a higher block shed rating and thus get into the backfield easier than a DE who is rated as such

Eliminate the gray area

no olb at dl

no dl at lb

LoRD HaV MeRCy {BEG} wrote:Eliminate the gray area

no olb at dl

no dl at lb

Just to play devils advocate, what about Mario Williams. Played DE all thru college, drafted number 1 overall as a DE, played DE his entire NFL career until this coming season under new D coordinator Wade Phillips 3-4 scheme, and now is listed in RL and in game as an OLB.

Mr Pheen wrote:

LoRD HaV MeRCy {BEG} wrote:Eliminate the gray area

no olb at dl

no dl at lb

Just to play devils advocate, what about Mario Williams. Played DE all thru college, drafted number 1 overall as a DE, played DE his entire NFL career until this coming season under new D coordinator Wade Phillips 3-4 scheme, and now is listed in RL and in game as an OLB.

Thats what he is now a olb.

I had Ware last year traded him because folks would complain that I put him at end. I got tired of hearing it cuz at de he was 99 & i only run a 4-3

mario will be the nu ware in wade system

The 3-4 scheme often has 4 men on the line and with the savvy owners we have I'm sure they dont need to use the madden glitch that wong spoke of to succeed.

The only problem I see is the 2-4-5 defense used by many teams that put the lb at de.
Its easy to recognize as is the 1-5-5.

If the admins allowed the 2-4-5 I wouldn't have a problem with it cuz its easy to recognize butas for lb at de pkg I say its a no go simply a loophole to get around the rule sort of like dual hb

I can see your point. I guess I am looking at things from the 4-3 perspective as that is all I run as well. If I ever traded for Mario, it would be to make him a DE at his natural position. Silly 3-4 lol.

2-4-5 does have LBs on the outside lined up on the line of scrimmage but there are still in the stand up position(same as if you are using show blitz)

Mario Williams has also gained 7 block shed points with his move to OLB so putting him back at DE with these inflated ratings(since he has never had that good of block shed as a DE) would be complete and utter cheese IMO

DEs are DEs or DTs

OLBs are OLBs or MLBs

It's madden and it's an exploit. If most of you idiots think that putting your #2 wr at #3 in the NE playbook. How is switching an olb to de not an exploit since he jumps 10 overall.

Stick to your guns if your a "sim" player and don't only be "sim" when you lose. Once people lose to an LB at DE all theyre gonna do is bitch to the admins about it.

KinGMizzarK wrote:If most of you idiots think that putting your #2 wr at #3 in the NE playbook.

I only hate that cause defensive match-ups dont work/are broken...if my CB followed the WR around with that game fucking shit up and putting a MLB on outside coverage I would have no issue where any WRs lined up...Another thing I hoped is fixed this madden

Michael1807 wrote:

KinGMizzarK wrote:If most of you idiots think that putting your #2 wr at #3 in the NE playbook.

I only hate that cause defensive match-ups dont work/are broken...if my CB followed the WR around with that game fucking shit up and putting a MLB on outside coverage I would have no issue where any WRs lined up...Another thing I hoped is fixed this madden

Man align will never work perfect in madden.

But my point is. If you think that's not sim, then how is this sim??

KinGMizzarK wrote:

Michael1807 wrote:

KinGMizzarK wrote:If most of you idiots think that putting your #2 wr at #3 in the NE playbook.

I only hate that cause defensive match-ups dont work/are broken...if my CB followed the WR around with that game fucking shit up and putting a MLB on outside coverage I would have no issue where any WRs lined up...Another thing I hoped is fixed this madden

Man align will never work perfect in madden.

But my point is. If you think that's not sim, then how is this sim??

Oh we are on the same page about LBs at LB and DE at DE

Just defending the pats playbook comment cause im a big anti #2 wr at #5 guy lol

That Pats playbook was BS last year. I would play teams that would have Moss at WR3 Wr4 WR5 all game which is ridicules considering it need my nickel or LB to cover moss.

I really hope they don't pull that crap again this year.